Fair DUI Flyer Story in Miami

So if we’ve got this right, by asserting your rights you are “delaying your detainment” and/or will be arrested for doing so. America?

To be clear, the words changed from “display” to “present or submit”. Showing your license through the window is still “presenting” it. And the purpose of the change was for electronic drivers licenses on smart phones, not for physical licenses.

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10 thoughts on “Fair DUI Flyer Story in Miami

  1. Patience

    In Pa the state police will take you to jail for not cooperating…I have a friend whos been a DPS in Pa fpr 18 years and he said ,” Bullcrap. I will take you to jail. period.” so i would like to see you guys do this in Pa……

    Reply
    1. Tim Mahoney

      I’d like to see him try this in FL. The codes he cites specifically REQUIRE him to sign and to submit his DL to the officers.

      The law in Florida (His own state’s code he is citing):

      318.14(2) Except as provided in ss. 316.1001(2) [failure to pay a toll – TM] and 316.0083 [Failure to come to a complete stop before turning right – TM], any person cited for a violation requiring a mandatory hearing listed in s. 318.19 or any other criminal traffic violation listed in chapter 316 must sign and accept a citation indicating a promise to appear. The officer may indicate on the traffic citation the time and location of the scheduled hearing and must indicate the applicable civil penalty established in s. 318.18. For all other infractions under this section, except for infractions under s. 316.1001, the officer must certify by electronic, electronic facsimile, or written signature that the citation was delivered to the person cited. This certification is prima facie evidence that the person cited was served with the citation.

      The funny part is that the paragraph after the first one he cited 318.14(3) states:

      318.14(3) Any person who willfully refuses to accept and sign a summons as provided in subsection (2) commits a misdemeanor of the second degree.

      Now lets look at his second claim: He doesn’t have to hand his license over. Really? The code he cites states specifically:

      322.15(1) Every licensee shall have his or her driver license, which must be fully legible with no portion of such license faded, altered, mutilated, or defaced, in his or her immediate possession at all times when operating a motor vehicle and shall present or submit the same upon the demand of a law enforcement officer or an authorized representative of the department. A licensee may present or submit a digital proof of driver license as provided in s. 322.032 in lieu of a physical driver license.

      (4) A violation of subsection (1) is a noncriminal traffic infraction, punishable as a nonmoving violation as provided in chapter 318.</cite

      Now, the paragraph above?

      To be clear, the words changed from “display” to “present or submit”. Showing your license through the window is still “presenting” it. And the purpose of the change was for electronic drivers licenses on smart phones, not for physical licenses.

      The change was to add this line to the end:

      A licensee may present or submit a digital proof of driver license as provided in s. 322.032 in lieu of a physical driver license.

      Pressing your license up to the window may be “presenting” it, but it is NOT “submitting” it. An officer has a justifiable need to take possession of the license in order to confirm it’s authenticity and, if a citation is issued, to scan the mag stripe on the back to ensure the data entered into the system is correct. Wouldn’t want them to fat-finger some piece of information and have the citation charged against the wrong person.

      Reply
      1. Jay

        Present OR Submit — I would submit is at the discretion of the OFFICER and not the citizen based upon the wording of the statute. The words “UPON DEMAND OF THE LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER” would indicate the choice is his or hers.

        Reply
      2. Jon

        Tim, you’re missing some fine print regarding when a signature is required:

        any person cited for a violation requiring a mandatory hearing listed in s. 318.19 or any other criminal traffic violation listed in chapter 316 must sign and accept…

        The key words here are “violation requiring a mandatory hearing” and “criminal traffic violation”. Most traffic violations do not require mandatory hearings and are not considered criminal violations. The types of violations that DO require a signature are listed in 318.19:

        (1) Any infraction which results in a crash that causes the death of another;
        (2) Any infraction which results in a crash that causes “serious bodily injury” of another as defined in s. 316.1933(1);
        (3) Any infraction of s. 316.172(1)(b);
        (4) Any infraction of s. 316.520(1) or (2); or
        (5) Any infraction of s. 316.183(2), s. 316.187, or s. 316.189 of exceeding the speed limit by 30 m.p.h. or more.

        Sources:
        http://www.lawserver.com/law/state/florida/statutes/florida_statutes_318-14
        http://www.lawserver.com/law/state/florida/statutes/florida_statutes_318-19

        Regarding handing over the license, the law does not clearly specify or define “present or submit” as meaning that the license must be physically handed over. In court, vagueness of the law typically goes in favor of the defendant. Furthermore, many of the people using the Fair DUI Flyer are providing their license in a bag hung outside the window, allowing the officer to interact with the license as they would normally.

        This flyer is not a shield and does not guarantee that you will avoid interaction or even arrest. A police officer is ultimately an armed individual who can choose to use violence or intimidation to force someone to comply. That’s why it’s so important, and clearly stated on this website, that under certain circumstances it is time to open the window (although NOT to speak).

        If the cop violates your fourth amendment protections against unwarranted search and seizure by breaking your window or forcing you to open it, a good lawyer should be able to defend you in court and have the case thrown out. That is also why it is clearly stated on the flyer that you should record as much of the encounter as possible with audio and preferably video.

        Ultimately this is a legal document and its primary strength is through your ability to prove complete compliance with the letter of the law. It has no mystical powers to prevent someone with a large flashlight from smashing your window.

        Reply
  2. Jay

    “Present or submit” the same UPON THE DEMAND OF THE LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER — The demand is by the officer so it’s at the officer’s discretion, not the citizen.

    Do we know the legislative intent of changing the words from display to “present or submit” anyway? This would give us a clue as to how courts would interpret this. My interpretation is that “submit” means “give” and “present” means to simply “display” in this plain language. How officers in the field interpret this would also be interesting to know.

    Reply
  3. Shannon

    I saw one video where instead of just pressing the materials up against a window they placed the items in a ziplock and hung it out the window before reaching the head of the line at a checkpoint. That certainly sounds like it qualifies as submitting. They can access your actual license without interacting with you.

    Reply

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